Just wondering if you had a chance to talk to any hunters about the new forest service plan. Did they take it in a good way or bad way that alot of the trails they use to get to the hunting spot will be closed. We didn't see as many hunters opening morning as I have seen in the past.

Ronnie

We made over 200 conatacts with hunters and hunter camps. Running about 50/50 in favor or opposed to limiting use to trails and roads, but we are going to allow game retrieval. They were more concerned with that than just riding. I/we have a dilemma on our hands now, I have a couple of roads that are paved and our engineers are telling me ATV’s are not designed to be ridden on paved roads - they are going to recommend I disallow that use due to liability concerns. I don’t buy it, having ridden my Honda on more paved roads than not but don’t know how to counter those claims. I have a call into Tim’s Yamaha to see if they can help me out. Info needs to be written by manufacturers.

We are still on track to release our Proposed Action maps in mid-January for comment. Maybe sooner for the maps if we can get our stuff together. Folks really need to tune into those maps and comment or bring other alternatives to the discussion. Just saying you don't like it won't get you anywhere. Might make you feel better though.............

First there are states that allow atv's to become street legal and they are perfectly ok on paved roads. Just not at real high speeds. Although I really doubt that any manufacturer will stick thier necks out on that one.
Second, what action can we take that will do any good. We have already been told there is not enough time to look at a lot of the trails that have been turned in.We know this is is not totally true as this process does not have to be completed until 2009 and not Sept 2008 like everyone is being told. A lot of people took a lot of time to map out these trails only to be rejected with "we just do not have time". I tried to turn some in at Mt. Ida and was told to take thier map a pencil in where the routes were. I was handing them a GPSed route on a perfectly good map.I took that as a total disregard for the public input.

So again what can we really do that is going to help anything. If they did not have time the first time around, what is going to be different this time?
SB, I am not trying to be a jerk, I just don't see what good our input has or will do.
I just wish we had more people like yourself working with us.

I really can’t help you about the timing of having all the maps done for the Ouachita, that’s the Forest Supervisor and Regional Foresters call. Wouldn’t hurt dropping a line to them (Forest Sup) and pleading your case.

That alone won’t fix the mess of trying to look at all the proposed trails. It just takes too long to do the analysis OUTSIDE our watershed analysis areas. If the trails are located within some of the upcoming order of entries then yes, we can analyze new or existing trails along with the watershed work. We’re desperately trying to make sure we don’t inadvertently miss or misplace some of what has been presented by the users. I ain’t gonna lie to ya and say if you propose them and we analyze them they will happen, the deck is stacked against that. But, if we don’t see them as a part of our watershed proposals I can guarantee they won’t happen. It really boils down to time for specialists to do their field work (along with their work that “pays the bills”), NEPA coordinators going out to the public once a Proposed Action is identified, and then letting the public comment on what they see. We’ve been appealed on about every major action as of late – that adds at least two months to an already 6 – 8 month process. T’aint good nor bad – just is (the law, that is).

I really haven’t answered your question, but the real answer is to not give up. Keep on making contacts with the district offices and Supervisor’s offices. Get an order of entry map for the local area, get on the “Scoping” notification mailing list, come into the offices and get to know the folks who try and manage these lands for everybody, comment when you can, volunteer to help when you can (hey, if I had a trail I really wanted to get on a map I’d volunteer to take folks out, do GPS-ing, photographing, holding the tape measure if that’d help, filling in mud holes, cracking down on the few riders that give all of us a bad name, etc.)

I feel the same way as Arkyrider. You keep saying try try try to get it done but what happens. I have been looking at the maps posted on the website and everything that we GPS'd and sent in has been for nothing so far. I might be wrong but I don't see anything on the maps that was left open that we ask for. Some of them never even came close to creeks or anything and they still are left off. Why fight it when all that is being said so far is no. I sent in no telling how many request to keep certain trails open and to me it was for nothing. When all this started and I helped to figure out what trails we wanted left open I really thought that just maybe we would meet half way and keep some stuff open but it doesn't look that way. I am no means putting the blame on you cause I appreciate everything that you are doing for us. It just seems that we are in a battle that we are not going to win. I really don't know what else to do anymore. Alot of people I know that has helped have just about given up hope. I have take off work many times to come up there to give the forest service what they ask and that was GPS coordinates. I just wonder what has happened to all the info that everyone sent in.

Ronnie

How to be noticed; First, we do have folks that have listened and looked at the proposals that have come in. I’ve “opened” an additional 160+ miles of roads that showed to be closed to OHV’s on the first maps. We’ve directed some closed roads to be reopened, albeit seasonally (most a 6 month season, a couple only a two month season due to a rare plant), but to me that’s better than being closed all together. I’ve not accepted any new “trails” because they didn’t fall within any watershed analysis currently underway. Also, we have WPG to the south and Fourche Trails & Sugar Crk. Trails to the north. It ain’t like we don’t have challenging trails. Will we look at proposals when we enter those watersheds? Yep. Same story as I posted yesterday.

Now, to be noticed you need to become a partner. I’m going to go back and talk about the Colorado experiment for a moment but it applies here. Also, I don’t speak for the Agency, I speak for me. In Colorado, we have a series of groups that are full partners with the Forest Service, but mainly for non-motorized trails or mountain reclamation. Namely; Continental Divide Trail Alliance, Colorado Trail Alliance, and Colorado Fourteeners Initiative (among others). These folks have organized, they compete for Grant funding, they have manpower numbers to perform work, and because of this they have clout. They can get Earmark funding from Congressional Bills for projects. They can come to the table and bring proposals with funding. They are noticed and recognized by the Agency (and awarded).

Here, we have a group in its infancy and that group is the FoOt (Friends of the Ouachita Trail). They have only been around a very short time but could write the book on how to get noticed. But, OHV folks are like hunters, very determined and very individualized. "Heck no I ain’t paying 25 bucks to join some yahoo bunch of outlaws…….".Until that changes we’ll/ya’ll will always be trying to catch up.

When this first started, the Agency told folks that just because a trail was submitted didn’t mean it would be automatically a system trail. What we did tell, we’ll look as we can do the Planning (NEPA).

We have an Org in it's infantsy. The AOCA which is having it's corp meeting Dec 1st. Please see the following.
Arkansas Off-Highway Vehicle Conservation Association
Set to Go!
December 1, 2007

9:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m. Incorporation Meeting, Union Building, AR Tech Univ., Ozark

1:30 p.m. to 4:30 p.m. OHV Scavenger Hunt, Byrd's Adventure Center

5:00 p.m. - 7:00 p.m. Awards, raffle and potluck dinner, Byrd's Adventure Center

December 1, 2007 culminates six months of work by four-wheel drive, ATV and off-highway motorcyclist enthusiasts to develop the Arkansas Off-Highway Vehicle Association (AOCA.)

The proposed mission for the new statewide association is: The Arkansas Off-Highway Vehicle Conservation Association represents off-highway vehicle (OHV) interests in Arkansas and works to influence recreation issues in cooperation with land managers, legislators and educators to conserve, expand, enhance and protect responsible OHV recreation opportunities.

The Arkansas OHV Conservation Association begins December 1 at 8:30 a.m. at the Union Building, AR Tech University, Ozark. Following coffee and donuts participants will approve the proposed association name, mission, objectives and by-laws, elect officers and discuss year-one goals. The officers will include President, Vice President, Secretary, Treasurer, 4-Wheel Drive Member-At-Large, All-Terrain Vehicle Member-At-Large, and Off-Highway Motorcycle Member-At-Large.

At noon participants will travel to Byrd's Adventure Center to begin celebrating their new state association. Byrd's will have a special lunch available from 12:30 p.m. to 2:00 p.m.. From 1:30 p.m. to 4:30 p.m. all are invited to join in a fun-packed scavenger hunt for prizes. The scavenger trail will be drivable by 4WD, ATV and off-highway motorcycle.

The celebration will end with a magnificent potluck dinner. For the potluck:

ATV riders bring: salads (pasta, lettuce, potato, etc.)
4WD drivers bring: desserts (lots of yummy desserts!)
OHM riders bring: chips, dips, pickles, cheese and condiments
AOCA will provide: hamburgers, hotdogs and buns

If you would like to help with the incorporation meeting or scavenger hunt, or would like to be placed on the distribution list contact Andy Guschke by phone or email. If contacting Andy by email please indicate in the Subject box that the email is in regards to "AOCA Incorporation".

There is no charge to participate in the incorporation meeting or celebration. Regular fees will apply at Byrd's Adventure Center of the Ozarks. Please see www.byrdsadventurecenter.com or call 479-667-4066 for lunch

That's a start, I'd like to see 10,000+ members in 6 months.......

There will be a few of us from the Dallas area in attendence.

quote:

Originally posted by Smokey the Bear:
That's a start, I'd like to see 10,000+ members in 6 months.......

Well that may be a stretch. We do have a pretty good start though.

quote:

Originally posted by planobrute:
There will be a few of us from the Dallas area in attendence.

That is great to hear. You do not have to be from Arkansas to join this organization, just interested in keeping off roading of all types legal and accessable.
Let others know, 4 wheeleras (as in jeeps) motorcycles and atv's.We have representation from all areas and we need to get huge numbers to join so we have a strong voice.

What paved roads are you talking about that they are wanting to close? You would pick a weekend I have to work Ed. With the Holidays and everything going on everybody has vacation scheduled and my scedule got all screwed up. I will see if I can convince someone I need off but I believe it will be like not having a lot of trails to ride. They just won't give me that warm fuzzy feeling.

Ronnie

quote:

Originally posted by Ronnie:
What paved roads are you talking about that they are wanting to close? You would pick a weekend I have to work Ed. With the Holidays and everything going on everybody has vacation scheduled and my scedule got all screwed up. I will see if I can convince someone I need off but I believe it will be like not having a lot of trails to ride. They just won't give me that warm fuzzy feeling.

Ronnie

Ronnie, it is understandable if you cannot make it. Once we get a way for everyone to get signed up I will get that info out.

quote:

Originally posted by Smokey the Bear:
That's a start, I'd like to see 10,000+ members in 6 months.......

We could sure use a member like you. Can you make it to the meeting?