Well, I wanted to thank everyone for showing up, and for those of you that couldn't make it, will catch you on the next go round.

Side note all that area we rode will be closed for Sep/08 hope everyone enjoyed it. The meeting with the Ranger confirmed it, so the only legal riding will be within the Wolf Pen Gap trail system.

Quad State Rally Pictures

Took the new Brute up there, and its fully Broken in, no flips this time. Got tangled up in a barbwire fence, but we won't talk about that. Lets just say 749cc on a 600lbs frame will take a little while to get used to. This machine packs a punch.



Steve-o was not going to beat me

I had a great time..its a shame they will close those trails..

Wow those are some great pics!

Sure are a lot of Big Horns within the bunch you were riding with.


What size cc Rhino's were in the bunch?

Catfish

Yeah, Don sorry you had to leave early. At least you had one good solid day of riding.

Catfish, those were all Rhino 660s, and yeah I need a piece of Maxxis stocks, with as many Bighorns as I push.

Side note on those Rhinos, that Rhino Crew were awesome, and they did a great job. We rode some super tight trails, and it wasn't without alot of work, but they made it work, and did a great job.

It was a great ride. Notice the hat type helmet that Greg ( I mean Metro Greg)was wearing. You would never know it was a helemet. I know it had to be though since he did say he would be wearing one for this ride.

We need to clarify a few things; trails can be added as our Planning efforts get underway. “Shin bone” may or may not be something we can do sooner rather than later, but if folks don’t get engaged in our Planning they’ll never be heard. How can that occur, you ask? We do what’s called watershed planning, meaning we look at large chunks of ground for management on a ten year rotation of entry. If a person, group, club, etc. has a trail (their “Shinbone”) to be looked at or even a new one proposed, getting involved in the planning is how it is elevated for discussion. If I were interested, I’d ask (from the forest service) for an order of entry map detailing where we’ll be and when (horseshoes and hand grenades close). If you folks can agree on a permit system run by the State, those funds could be used to build the/that trail.

I don’t think Shinbone can be resurrected due to its location in the creeks, steep and eroded slopes, parallel design to roads on the north and south, etc. And, I think the Shinbone area has passed this Planning stage and won’t be done again until 2016. However, some areas north and south, east and west are being done this next year. Proposed trails from north of Irons Fork over to Fourche Mtn. Trails is in the works for this next year for Planning anyway….

Is that the CannedHam police there?

Looks like you guys had a good time Greg... sorry I missed....WHEN IS THE NEXT ONE?

I could see losing the Shin Bone, but Caney Creek and that one trail that goes up to the Power Lines around Dog Mountain, and all those trails in that area really need to remain open. Those trails are around Dog Mt. are really the only ones worth riding in that are area, plus the ones due south of Caney Creek Wilderness area. Lose those two main areas, and that area is virtually shut down, according to the grey lines on the map we saw.

Now combine that with the loss of areas east of the Blue Hole, riding outside of the Wolf Pen Gap main trail system is all but dead.

Who knows hopefully the hope will be north of WPG going towards Fouche Mt, and combining those trails. Will see.

Foneman, yeah that is the crazy bubble bee Can Am nut, Steve-o. That is Mr. Super Can Ham.

Yeah, Voodoo that was a good ride wish you were there. Not sure on the next big one will keep you posted.

If you are talking just trails it don’t look good, but if you count the roads that are open the amount of riding is still a whole bunch. The trouble with the trails you mention (Dog Mtn., etc.) is the area is/has already been assessed and won’t be again until 2015 or so. If you have areas outside that Upper Brushy Crk. area somebody really ought to request an order of entry map and have a look'sy. Blue Hole is on the Caddo so I don’t even know anything about that one. I’ll take another look at the powerline area and see what caused it to drop out.

Realize too there are a good many folks opposed to all riding in the Forest so we have to balance that fact. I got a pretty good tail chewing last Friday over allowing (?) 4-wheelers to run up and down the County roads, harassing locals and generally running a-muck. Not an easy issue to deal with all in all…….

As I mentioned a couple Friday's ago, we'll have over 500 miles of roads and trails open. We'll lose some and hopefully build some new ones on down the line.

I can deal with loosing the trails that go across the creeks but I don't understand the ones that we ride that don't touch nothing but dirt or go through a creek bed that is dry 90% of the time. There were numerous trails that we listed by GPS coordinates that either don't go through any water or go through a dry creek bed. I guess I will never fully understand how some of our government agencies think. Is there anyway we can show someone the trails I am thinking about. I would like to give a little tour of these trails just to fully understand what the reasoning would be in closing them. Is it erosion,tearing up the land or what. I know trails I have been riding for years that are no worse off than what they were ten years ago. I do want to think you Smokey Bear for meeting with us on a Friday and for taking the time to try and answer a lot of our questions. There are a lot of us here that just do not understand why we are loosing our trails especially the ones that have been ridden on for years. How many miles of trails is there compared to roads?

For all you guys that don't know Steve-O he is actually Gregs adopted son. He got a Bomber 800 like he did and wears nothing but yellow when he rides. Now with all those bells,whistles and strobe lights he kinda reminds me of Christmas time at radio shack. That new shop he built is actually where Stevo-O lives and stores his 4 wheelers.

Ronnie

quote:

Originally posted by Smokey the Bear:
If you are talking just trails it don’t look good, but if you count the roads that are open the amount of riding is still a whole bunch. The trouble with the trails you mention (Dog Mtn., etc.) is the area is/has already been assessed and won’t be again until 2015 or so. If you have areas outside that Upper Brushy Crk. area somebody really ought to request an order of entry map and have a look'sy. Blue Hole is on the Caddo so I don’t even know anything about that one. I’ll take another look at the powerline area and see what caused it to drop out.

Realize too there are a good many folks opposed to all riding in the Forest so we have to balance that fact. I got a pretty good tail chewing last Friday over allowing (?) 4-wheelers to run up and down the County roads, harassing locals and generally running a-muck. Not an easy issue to deal with all in all…….

As I mentioned a couple Friday's ago, we'll have over 500 miles of roads and trails open. We'll lose some and hopefully build some new ones on down the line.

Please keep in mind that we are talking off roading and not road riding. Riding an ATV on roads is like holding hands in a house of prostitution. Just does not quite give you the feeling you are looking for. What happened to keeping each type of recreation in mind? If you (the forest service) squeeze all the ATV's that come to the Mena area into WPG it will do nothing but wear it to a frazzle. Then they will be screaming to close it. Does not sound like very good judgement in land management to me. I know you are doing what you can to help us, but this is really poor planning on someones part. You say we need to speak up. That was done. A lot of time and effort from a lot of people mapping areas went down the tube just because they say there is no time to look at and evaluate all of them. That is really not true because the forest service put a self imposed implimentation date of Sept 2008 on themselves. Per the mandate it does not have to be implimented until 2009. This is what the people should be getting very vocal over.More time COULD AND SHOULD be given to imput and FAIR evaluation.

In our Planning efforts, picture a triangle with the Forest Plan at the Peak of the triangle. It holds all the applicable; Federal, State, and local laws, higher orders, and regulations that govern what we do. Under that triangle we do planning on watersheds, usually 10 – 35,000 acres in size. This Planning identifies what and where we’ll be dong projects within that watershed. Also under the triangle is other Planning; such as for prescribed fire, trail construction, recreation or roads or special uses type stuff. The Forest Plan was signed a couple years ago. It identified the land management types and activities permitted in those different management areas. That’s where public input begins to help form the eventual concept of how this public land will be managed.

Specifically, the trails around the Cossatot, and south of Caney Creek will not happen due to how this Forest Plan, along with some very specific laws relating to Wild and Scenic River corridor management and Wilderness management. Shinbone is steep, eroded, crosses many creeks – both wet and dry, and would need a rebuild in many areas to be acceptable. Cover it in Planning and find the $ to do it and it could happen, but I doubt it. It would be better to get on the front end of an area, GPS some trails and work with the forest service to try and see them through. Take the highline trail, since Shinbone and most of the ones mentioned here won’t work now and probably not ever work. If we were to take it into the system it would need some relocation, stream work, and it dead ends up on top (as far as I can tell). Put that trail on a map without relocation and instead of 50 ATV’s per month you have 500 ATV’s per month. That trail had better be a good one or resource damage through all this use will cause it to be shut down for repairs. THAT’s why it can’t be used in its present state

I’ve mentioned this before and it bears repeating; OHV use is enjoying about a 20% favorable ranking over non-use right now – meaning you are at about 60% in favor and 40% opposed in the public’s eye. That probably depends on the particular day, I’ve spent a large portion of my time lately listening to why 4-wheelers are bad for everything. An 11% shift in opposition would then put ATV’ers at the less than acceptable column. I’m one too and I don’t want that. As for as riding on roads, we probably have a majority asking us to be able to continue riding on roads. Our uses are on the roads, more so than trails. You can leave WPG and ride over to the Fourche Mtn Trails, ride them and ride on over to the Sugar Crk. Trails and back to WPG. That’s not bad. It’s 37 miles as the crow flies, and it’d take a person two hard days riding to cover that ground, plus another day to ride the trails.

Timing of the Map, call the Washington Office. The timing was requested by the Chief for the Forests to complete their work. This is an Agency Rule, wholly controlled by Agency. We/they responded and now that’s what we have.

Being able to study proposed routes is not imbedded in an additional year, it’s highest potential is with these individual Planning areas and processes. Make contact with the locals, camp out on ther door if you have to get your trial noticed.

Are you available to ride Friday afternoon the 9th or Sunday morning the 11th Smokey Bear. We would like to show you some trails we think could be left open. We could be available Friday morning also if you can make it. I will even stay late Sunday if after lunch would be better.

Ronnie

Bad weekend, we are doing hunter contacts Friday November 09 - doing OHV surveys and visiting camps. We have teams of folks visiting as many camps as we can, to get them on board with 4-wheeler policy up and coming. I set up at Old Forester with an information booth to catch folks entering a management area in Scott County (east of Fourche Mtn. trials). The 10th starts modern gun deer season (WPG closed for a month)and I'll be in Fayetteville Saturday and Sunday. We'll have to pick a different day/weekend. It would be wise to not do a whole lot of riding that first week of modern gun, the natives get upset during the rut. I talked to a guy this afternoon and gave him some of the details on how trials can be assimilated into the system. Also gave him an "order of entry map" detailing the timing and areas for the next few years.

Sorry you cannot make it. I know how the deer hunters get when that big buck is scared away from thier blind. I guess I have been pretty lucky when riding there during gun season. I have never had a run in with the locals before. Most we have seen have waved and been very friendly. We will be riding mostly roads so we shouldn't be interfering with the hunters. Gotta do some exploring and gather some GPS info.

Ronnie

Ya'll get some looked at and I'll ride them with you another time. We done that some last year with NOHVCC up south of Brushy Crk. I hope you can look at some areas we have on tap for NEPA in 08 & 09....