Smokey is there some way the St. Francis and Ouachita services get together and hold a seminar for trail maintenance? A good example would be a general trail maintenance and chainsaw course. Many of us have had to be rouge trail repairmen over the years. I have been given a run down of clearing down trees from trails from rangers in the past but none have seemed to be interested in providing the course. I think it would be a great idea. Also a few of us have small garden tractors with box blades and front end loaders that would be perfect to do repairs to water bars and rutted trails. Everybody says "well OHM riders do not take care of their trails" but how are we supposed to if we don't know how or if we have to sneak around to fix things?

You bet, it will take some coordination but I'll offer up the location. We can also coordinate instructors for chainsaw use, as well as getting certified on ATV's. We can hold multiple courses in two days - with hands on training where it can be used.

This will take some time to bring together, I'd guess no sooner than early summer but ya'll tell me when would work. We don't have to do this all at once, maybe over several weekends, etc. Excellent idea! I'll need to know how many, what's needed, etc. Let's plan this thing out to not miss anybody who's got an interest......

So riders do need to take the ASI course? If thats the case Bill Hiaumet(owner camp wolf creek springs) is a certified instructor and we could take that part off of your hands(less you have to mess with). Also what about the ASI courses and Single track users? Some of the events may be attended by OHM users. As far as how many I will be doing my best to get some numbers on interest at this stage. I could not tell you whats needed. I guess supplies would be things like what would be needed for rut repair, water bar repair, chainsaw demonstrations, and whatever else you feel we should know.

I know a heck of a lot more about chainsaw certifications than ATV's. When I last visited the subject with one of the campground owners (maybe Wolf Creek CG ?)there was a problem with having to charge for the course. Our folks can put it on and not charge but I don't know how well , or how many we can do at a time. I'd say 10 max per class, whether chain saw or ATV training - but that call is up to the instructors. You can be the best ATV rider in the US but if you don't have the certification you can't ride for us. Certification for both (above) is good for three years. Don't need a certificate to swing a brush blade, shovel, or "doodle" rocks. These "certifiers" need to get together and work out the differences pretty soon so we know what we do have for ATV's. I think I can swindle er I mean convince the chainsaw boys......

Well smokey the cheaper the better. As of now(1-30) I have about 5 people interested in the course and I'm sure that will continue to grow. So I will let you do your thing. If you would like my personal info I can email it to you.

Now looks like next Thursday or Friday to release the Proposed Action, too many sick folks with the flu....

Now for the certifications; it would really be better if you folks could handle your ASI outside our instructors, if you have instructors that can teach (I know you do, just a matter of working out the details). Then, that piece of paper is what you'll need to ride under our volunteer agreement. That, and the helmet, gloves, eye protection, etc. Barring unforeseen circumstances, we can train, but will take about 1/2 day per group.

For chain saws, we can do that for free - don't think it'll take over a day. But, to cut you'll need chaps, hard hat, gloves, long sleeve shirt, hearing protection, etc.

Both certs are good for three years. For tractors, I figure if you drive up on one you know how to use it.

Let's look at May (now that's a nice month to ride), and we will start planning......... Can finish up with a trail ride and maybe a cook out... Whatcha think?

Chris, thanks for taking the ball and running with it about the volunteer issues. Since I've joined AOCA and very interested in getting certified for both chain saw and atv, would you please either post something on here or send to us as members a notification of when we can attend a class?

Did you get the email today from NOHVCC about the media release stuff that is free to anyone? Those guys are doing a great job up there. This is the kind of stuff that should help our cause. AOCA is doing a great job also.

"United We Can Ride, Do Nothing and We Can Just Remember"

10-4 Watch the forums too

I have not received anything from novhcc today

Would it be possible to have NOHVCC or AOCA (or both) help put on a trial maintenance seminar? Maybe have some of our folks there to support or lend a hand where needed? Maybe in conjunction with saw or ASI certification? Or even just a weekend day of trail maintenance activities and "how to's"? Follow it up with a ride and a bar-bie.......

Additional information on chain saw certification; folks who have not taken a class called S-212 will need to have the full blown training consisting of at least 2 days and maybe three days, depending on the number of folks in the class. Certifiactoin is good for three years and once the 212 is taken, recertification consists of maybe two hours of cutting a tree or two. Work can be done over individual days, you don't have to do three days straight. It might be a Friday-Saturday one week and a Saturday the next week, or three Saturdays - consecutive or not.

AOCA can do anything you need. Smokey do this the easiest way for you. Where can I find more information about the S-212 class? As far as I know no one is certified to carry a chainsaw for trail clearing and if this is the case we may try to keep the chainsaw side small for a member or two from each club(if they show an interest) Basically we had an official trail maintenance day at brock creek a few weeks ago. Some of the water bars are having trouble draining properly and we didn't know what we were allowed to do to fix this problem. After this I decided it would really be best if we can get certified and trained by you guys so we do not do anything wrong.


The way it sounds we will need a separate classes for ASI, trail maintenance, and chainsaw cert. Do the ASI classes need to be taken for trail maintenance too or just for chainsaw cert? I will start getting names for chainsaw cert now and try to keep them into small classes. Also what about the use of small garden tractors for trail repair? Do we need anything special for that type of work? Basically I'm trying to set up maintenance day plans that are effective. It is much slower to poke around with shovels all day if it can be fixed by a small box blade or front end loader and in some cases that is just about the only thing that works properly.

http://www.nohvcc.org/education/workshop.asp and yes I think Nohvcc may be able to help too

Here's what I might suggest; there won't be too big of a need to have folks chainsaw certified, we (FS) can always have a person there or do the saw work alongside the volunteer day. Maybe 5 folks from your group could take the course for saws? For ATV's, I'd hope outside forces can do that but we can if needed. We can do a group in 1/2 day, but we don't have instructors here locally. I can "wheel and deal" to get at least one trainer, still outide instructors would be great. We could do the training at WPG and use outside instructors. The ATV ASI training is the most important for folks wanting to volunteer. The more the better in my opinion, as long as we keep it free of charge to individuals (if we can).

For farm tractors etc., I don't think we'll need any certification if the equipment belongs to whoever is using it. We can coordinate and have our dozer there to work alongside volunteers if needed. I could have it out there anyway. I'd like help from NOHVCC into maintenance techniques to coincide with some of our folks to learn from each other.

Then - the bar-b-que.....

I agree with the low attendance on chainsaw certs but our group spans arkansas and that covers both forests. I want to keep the numbers as low as possible. The question I keep getting asked is how will this certification work with the different districts and other forests. I have just heard feb. 9th(from the River Valley Dirt Riders) that Jasper Ranger District(st. Francis) will be holding a class. If I took the class in the Ouachita Forest will it also be valid for the St. Francis Forest? What is the max number allowed for the ATV ASI training? So I do not have too many people sign up.

Any certification we've talked about is good nationwide. Basically, getting that certification means when you are signed up as a volunteer you have coverage for whatever might happen to you. Get a tree on the noggin, you're covered. Crack an arm on an ATV, you're covered. Limitations apply - no negligence, horse play, etc (unless of course you are on a horse - we cover that too). Government doesn't have insurance per se, we self insure. That's why we don't turn anybody or everybody loose with a chain saw or ATV. So, if you can get a saw class or ASI somewhere else, just bring in the paperwork at the time you sign the volunteer agreement.

ASI - depends on how many instructors and level of ability. I seen 8 - 12 go through at once before, we are mainly limited on the number of ATV's we can put folks onto. Heck I seen 20 go through at one time with 2 instructors. That one took all day but we finished with a 4 hour trail ride to finish (?) the training..... I really think our instructors just wanted to have fun. Certainly no law against that....

Chainsaw Course
I have been asked this: "the club in the Sylamore district had several members get certified through this course. some time later they were told that the FS did not allow volunteers to use power equip. in the forest any longer" So is the use of chainsaw volunteering is up to districts to be ok with it or not? I allowed 5 spots for this class.


ASI Class
I will talk to our contact and see what he says about price but the cheaper the better. Can you use your own machine? If that is the case anyone who would take it would probably have their own machine. The people who will be taking this course will experienced riders.



Trail Maintenance Seminar
I am going to prepare the workshop application for NOHVCC. We will need a Location for this event, month and date. What dates work well with you? Any preferred locations?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Chris72941,

Once volunteers are trained and certified, they can run the equipment they are certified for. If a person runs into the problem of not being allowed I'd contact the district ranger personally. There might be an occasion where not recognizing the training might interfere, but I've never seen it.

ASI - yes, use your own machine. Let me know what you find out about outside ASI instructors. I was told they can't do it for free, we can. May just have to coordinate dates real good.

Trail maintenance - WPG, maybe April or May-ish. Saturday and Sunday, or maybe just Saturday. One day will be enough time but I'd defer that to NOHVCC. We'll have a dozer there too to learn the techniques and maybe lend a few too. Maybe near a trailhead to make travel better, the East trail coming off the East trailhead is in worse shape right now. Don't make any difference, we'll find one on the fly if need be.

ASI/Chainsaw certs I will call bill (Camp wolf pen) and talk to him about dates. He told me earlier he will contact the USFS instructor he knows to see about doing a class together(so its free) Once we settle on a date for the ASI you can pick out the day for chainsaw class.

Trail Maintenance Class If we want to get NOHVCC in on this April may be pushing it. I will try for weekends in May. I would like to give NOHVCC 2 days for this class if they are going to make the trip so what about WPG Field work on a Friday or Sunday?

That works, however NOHVCC wants to set the dates. We're local (loco?) so we're flexible.........

Sounds like a plan........

smokey check PMs