Since we have an ear with Smokey the Bear as it relates too the WPG area here are a few suggestions, and I would like some of your thoughts on these issues. Like I mention in the other thread I really think its great the enforcers/shapers of policies are joining these forums to listen what we have to say, and see where we are coming from. I understand alot of these changes are coming about from what President Bush passed a few years back in which they want to restore many National Forest areas to what they were originally were back in beginning of time. Plus, they want to bring some structure to the National Forests, to Forests that do not have structured policies as it relates to off rode riding. I also understand the resources and challenges that the National Forests are faced with as far as money, and manpower. When I went to FLETC I met several Federal Forest Rangers, and spoke to them in great depth about the challenges our National Forests are faced with. So, I understand where they are coming from. Here are a few of my suggestions, and I know others may jump in here who ride this area.

Point Number 1; Like many others on this forum we travel and ride all over the U.S. and ride many different parks and national forests. One thing that struck me as being amazing, as far as the National Forests in Arkansas, was there was no riding permits/fees. Don't get me wrong I think its great I don't have to pay to ride in a National Forest that is set aside for us Americans, but there should be some type of fee. I know this might not be popular with many people, but I think if this money is used properly we could solve alot of problems.

For example; One example of a National Forest program that has worked well for OHV is at the Allegheny National Forest in, P.A. You basically buy a $25 riding permit, and stay on the designated trails. With that money they have built new trails, added bridges over environmentally safe areas, put in concrete paver's on steep mud trails to prevent further washouts, etc... Below are a few pics of what I am talking about.

Typical Bridge over creeks







This is where the money can go to ensure the Forest will remain open to OHV, and to improve some of the environmentally sensitive areas. I have no problem paying $25 a year if I know for a fact that money will be put back into the Off Rode Riding within the National Forest.

Point#2;

I think is this is the biggest issue for all of us, and the most interest. It concerns the riding outside of the "Main Traditional National Forest". As some of us may or may not know there are 100s of miles of trails outside of the National Forest, that are not "officially" sanctioned like the trails within the National Forest. To be honest this is one reason why the WPG area is so popular, because of the trails within the National Forest, and then all the trails outside of the National Forest. Its the closets thing we have to the Hatfield & McCoy trails, once you include all the trails outside of the National Forest.

I personally never understood who owns all that property or what the official stance is on these areas. I am talking about the trails south, and south east of the Caney Creek Area, and there are a ton of them. The area west, and north west of the Blue Hole there a ton of trails over there. Many of them do not have "No Atv" signs (I understand people tear them down), some have grassy berms (those trails we know for a fact are closed, and we do not ride on them), and then you have some with a berm or dirt bump at one end, and the other end has nothing (these trails are ridden on all the time). These half berm/half hump at one end and nothing at the other end are trails that are well known by the locals, and ridden quite regularly by visitors. In the 5yrs I have ridden up there I never heard anyone getting in trouble on these trails. Now, the trails that have "No OHV" signs or fresh grassy berms those are clear no riding areas.

My point is this, I hope in this upcoming Trail Clarification Guidance or Rules in January 08, and eventually Sept 08 these riding areas are addressed. I hope they are brought into the fold and recognized as legitimate trails of the National Forest, and are treated as the WPG National Forest Trails are. These trails have been around forever, and are what make WPG what it is today. Now, if we are forced to ride the trails within the "Main WPG Trail System" then so be it, I have learn the government will do what it wants to do in the end. It will be a major disappointment, but so is life sometimes.

My question is; Those trails south of Caney Creek, and west of the Blue Hole are those on National Forest Property? If so can they be brought into the fold like the WPG National Forest Trails are? What is your take on those areas outside of the "Main National Forest Trail System"? Do you eventually envision that we will only be able to ride the trails in the main national forest, and will not be able to leave it? Meaning no more riding down towards the Blue Hole, or South of Caney Creek, basically staying within the Main Wolf Pen Gap Trail System?

Lastly, I just want to say the WPG National Forest Rangers/workers have done an excellent job on the trails within the National Forest, cutting the bypass around Hawk's Overlook, adding new trails, new trail heads, they have always been friendly and professional to us, etc... WPG area is the closets we have to the great trail systems like the Hatfield & McCoy of W.VA, or some of the larger trail systems out west. It would be wonderful if we could "officially" recognize the areas outside of main WPG National Forest, and make it one big trail system. Through the efforts of the Arkansas Trail Voyergers, and many others I think we could make this a premier destination of the South.

We all appreciate your time, maybe some others can jump in here and give some suggestions.

That's a lot of ground to cover, I'll print this off and try to answer tomorrow or Wednesday. Been a long day and I'm out again tomorrow night, so it might be Wednesday after all.

Quickly though - a bunch of the roads you question (Caney Crk, Blue hole) are county jurisdiction, meaning we (USFS) have no say in who or if they can be ridden.

Fees - I tend to think more in lines with the State taking that on alligator. I agree with you but I don't know how USFS can make it work in a timely fashion. Maybe so.

WPG and associated trails - maybe. I think the mapping we are currently doing will allow for a good part of that. Some of these cross-district issues may surface but the MVUM must be updated annually. It ain't gonn'a be perfect the first time through so we'll keep working on it. More in-depth later.....

Thanks STB, I appreciate your time on this, I know how busy you are so take your time in responding there is no rush.

I wish that we could keep the existing trails that we have now. I know that we cannot keep all of them but it never hurts to wish. I would be willing to pay to ride also if the money went where it was suppose to.We have a real good trail system up there and it is great for the economy of Mena. I know of some places that probably wouldn't be there today if it wasn't for OHVs. I know there are some people that would be willing to volunteer to keep trails open and such but it is my understanding you have to take a training course with the forest service to even operate a chain saw. I hope that we can all figure out what is best left open and what is best closed. I know that everyone will not be happy but that happens everyday in life. I look forward to chating more with you Smokey and meeting you one day to discuss matters more. One more thing I would like to say is I wish we could all get on the same sheet of music. I have talked to numerous Forest Rangers and people in the Mena office and it seems most tell a total different story from the other.

Ronnie

We really need all you Texans to come up and join the AOCA once we get it up and running. This will be the mainstay of this area. We had our first organizational meeting and the next is scheduled for December 1st. It will be a meet and ride type of meeting. We will be adopting by-laws and voting in officers. Greg, all of the issues that you brought up have been discussed at the forest service meetings. You guys really need to come into the fold. You do not have to be from Arkansas to join, just interested in what goes on up here. We will bring info about the AOCA to the ride.

Count me in ..Arky....I will gladly support any organization of your type....

Count me in also, since I feel the Arkansas trail riding is some of the best trail riding out there, and I would love to see it expanded.

It would be great to create something like the Hatfield and McCoy, but I know takes private land owners, counties, etc... to pull that monster together. For now it would be nice too shoot small and keep the existing trails open, and then expand where we can. Yeah, bring the info on the ride.

Greg, check your PM's

Got any more info for us Smokey the Bear? You have really been a big help.

Ronnie

Arkyrider

What is AOCA ??? Where? How?

There is quite a bit happening in the world of MVUM but not specifically to WPG. I do think we my try to leave WPG open year 'round and not close during hunting season (starting next year). Got another new box culvert proposed next summer, the one south of the new one from the north trailhead (boardcamp creek?)should start work soon and be completed this fall. Got another re-route to get out of the water we might be doing. Also trail maintenance work in October. Gonna ride again in the next week or so, check out the east trailhead and bounce north over the part washed out..........

Thanks for keeping us updated on everything that is going on. We really appreciate what you are doing for the off road community. I wished I lived closer and I would help out every way I could. Glad you had a good time in Colorado. I love riding in Arkansas but Colorado and Utah are the places to be. I have ridden Taylor Park, Alpine Loop and the Flat Tops area and the sights you see are out of this world. I hope you make our ride in October and discuss some more things going on with riding up there.
Once again thanks.

Ronnie

quote:

Originally posted by chillout:
Arkyrider

What is AOCA ??? Where? How?

Here>>>>>> http://www.dakotasport.net/

We are really just getting started.
Arkansas Off Highway Vehical Conservation Association (AOCA)